TOPIC: Not able to get good tube sound

Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #17988

Hey guys,

i am using GuitarRig for years now and was very impressed when i found s-gear. youtube examples blew my mind, especially this almost-real tube sound.

was getting the demo of s-gear2 and IRs from Ownhammer. Now i try to get this sound: (copying settings + IR from youtube)

youtube click me

but it sounds like crap / almost exactly like guitar rig, what am i doing wrong?

i made an example sound with 2 guitars, GuitarRig-Amp + IR and S-Gear-Amp + IR

File Attachment:

File Name: amp_test.mp3
File Size: 2,108 KB


settings are the same like in the youtube video but the sound is thin and muddy and not at all like a tube amp.... (no EQ or compressor or anything else yet, just crappy sound example)

maybe people use pre-amps to get good sound? or more effects? in video he is using "minor processing plugins"

-virtual preamp collection
-virtual tape machines
-virtual mix rack

do they change the sound that much?

Interface: Line6 POD Studio UX2
Guitar 1: Jackson Soloist Seymour Duncan Humbuckers (Passive)
Guitar 2: ESP Ltd Viper Seymour Duncan Blackouts (Active)

00:00 Guitar 1 (Guitar Rig)
00:22 Guitar 2 (Guitar Rig)
00:45 Guitar 1 (S-Gear)
01:07 Guitar 2 (S-Gear)
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #17990

Make sure you’re using a HiZ input, and you’re not anywhere near clipping the audio interface. Make up any gain in S-Gear using the Input control.

Try the S-Gear cabinet models, they’re pretty good.

Listen in context at the same relative volumes.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #17991

Hello,
Why not try to get a clean sound first using a stock S-Gear preset and record that and let has have a listen.
I would recommend open chords, using a pattern such as G - D - C - E - strum one for each chord.
Then perform a one octave C-major scale.
Keep it real simple.
Get back to us with the results.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #17992

jamsden wrote:
Make sure you’re using a HiZ input, and you’re not anywhere near clipping the audio interface. Make up any gain in S-Gear using the Input control.

Try the S-Gear cabinet models, they’re pretty good.

Listen in context at the same relative volumes.

i can read here line6 forum

that i am using hi-z input (there is "instrument"-input on my ux2 which seems to be hi-z)

not anywhere near clipping audio interface? i always had the feeling that my input is very "thin" and "weak" i try to change this... i dont even hear differences between active and passive guitar....
mr-es335 wrote:
Get back to us with the results.

i will do tonight
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Last Edit: 1 month 1 week ago by b_m_l. Reason: typo
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #17994

clean example, sounds like crap, too

File Attachment:

File Name: test2.mp3
File Size: 325 KB
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #17997

jamsden wrote:
Make sure you’re using a HiZ input, and you’re not anywhere near clipping the audio interface. Make up any gain in S-Gear using the Input control.

Try the S-Gear cabinet models, they’re pretty good.

Listen in context at the same relative volumes.

no possibility to get higher output via my ux2 ... no knobs or anything to change level of output :(

maybe i try to higher s-gear input-level
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 1 week ago #18003

i tried to increase input in s-gear 2, sounds the same as before, also when i look at the level-meters in s-gear2 (the animated bars where you can see level of in- and output) it looks like i have the same levels as in youtube video Oo any ideas?
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18005

Hello,

I noticed that this is a pause in each of the recordings? Are you using a compressor?

You have to consider the entire input structure prior to getting to any amp sim/modeler. So:

Guitar > cable > interface > Cable > Computer

Considering each in turn:
Is the guitar setup properly?
What of pickup height, etc.
How new/old are the strings?
What of the 'action"?
Are you using good quality cables?
You are using the Hi-Z input on the interface - this is good.
If there is an overload led, you would want to adjust the input setting so that the input adjustment just begins to clip, then back off this input adjustment 2 notches. This is considered as a "rule of thumb".

Check this out and get back to us.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18006

Guitar is set up correctly.
pickup heights are adjusted quite near the strings maybe 5mm
strings brand new for test recording
action is quite low, i set up both guitars a while ago
cables are neither expensive nor cheap, maybe 10 bucks cables

using hi-z input for passive, and the other input for active pickups (its written in ux2 manual like this)

somehow i cannot change signal strength at my ux2, there are "meters" where you can see how strong the signal is and there is a red "clipping" light, but its never flashing.

i can only change input strength in s-gear2 software at the bottom.

another question: i have thunderbolt port at my laptop, maybe try new interface (usb or thunderbolt)? it seems reasonable and clever to higher input until it clips and then roll back a little but i dont have option at my ux2, there is only an "output" know where i can change output level of the analog outs
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Last Edit: 1 month 6 days ago by b_m_l. Reason: typo
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18010

there is only an "output" know where i can change output level of the analog outs
Can't you change the input level via software?
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18011

jbraner wrote:
there is only an "output" know where i can change output level of the analog outs
Can't you change the input level via software?

b_m_l wrote:
i can only change input strength in s-gear2 software at the bottom.

but its not much of a difference....
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18012

would a DI-Box make a difference? what exactly is DI for?
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18013

Your recordings sound like they are being gated very heavily. Not sure if this is your issue but make sure that you have the noise gate threshold set appropriately. Check by first disabling the noise gate:


noisegate.png
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18016

How did you create your dry test and the first test recordings earlier in this thread?

I see you use the Line-6 interface. I assume you had to use a DAW of some sort to blend in some drums.

I'm going to import your dry test recording into Pro Tools and have a look to see if anything looks off in a wave form compared to my own dry signals.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18017

PatriotsBiker wrote:
How did you create your dry test and the first test recordings earlier in this thread?

I see you use the Line-6 interface. I assume you had to use a DAW of some sort to blend in some drums.

I'm going to import your dry test recording into Pro Tools and have a look to see if anything looks off in a wave form compared to my own dry signals.

i am using samplitude music studio + addictive drums... but also when i use s-gear2 as standalone my sound is crap (or the youtube video is heavily edited with other effects / VSTs. anyways... i don't achieve the sound i would like to hear like in the demo videos :-D with threshold off i have the same...

i also noticed:

when i use guitar rig, i have on top of the app window bars / sliders / meters for input and output. even when i max out the input-meter i only have 1/4th of input, seems to be quite low....
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 6 days ago #18018

you are doing something wrong,i used to have the same audio card and all the time i was getting awesome sound,here a video from a friend of mine.


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Last Edit: 1 month 6 days ago by NightWalker.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 5 days ago #18019

b_m_l wrote:
i am using samplitude music studio + addictive drums... but also when i use s-gear2 as standalone my sound is crap (or the youtube video is heavily edited with other effects / VSTs. anyways... i don't achieve the sound i would like to hear like in the demo videos :-D with threshold off i have the same...

i also noticed:

when i use guitar rig, i have on top of the app window bars / sliders / meters for input and output. even when i max out the input-meter i only have 1/4th of input, seems to be quite low....
Just some thoughts from a home hobbyist with way too much time on his hands today. Please disregard if bogus.

OK, so I imported your dry clip. I also got the settings off of that YouTube video you posted a link for and added the Bogner pack to my Ownhammer cart. I played some using my LP bridge against that preset and it sounds nice and thick and rich.

I then played a bit of a sloppy version of what you played for the clean tone. Mine never struck me as being muddy or thick or anything. However, your file struck me as being thin or otherwise anemic. I played both of our clean tracks into the new S-Gear preset that you turned me on to. Both sounded about like they should for open chords into a blistering hot preset. I forgot to test the arpeggio parts, but I certainly can. Both of our open chords sounded like they were way too busy for the preset. Aside from that, yours was getting an extremely thin, washed out quality to it.

After fiddling about with a moderate Q inside an EQ, everything on mine was lower volume than yours was, but mine had thicker definition. Especially so scanning a 150H or so at a time throughout the 110Hz through the 800Hz range. Actually on up through 2.5kHz. Then out near 4-6K on yours, the wash out was prominent. I decided to just do a couple of basic shelving EQ adjustments on it. I boosted your signal up 800Hz or so by 6db and dropped the same amount from about 1.5kHz on up. Losing a lot of that top end reduced the wash out a bit. I switched to a gentle slop cut and reduced it more. Either way, some density and thickness to the tone was revealed.

So, add what Mike said about the gate to this riddle. The transients on your clean sample were not all that big. The first one especially sounded like it had to wait for a gate to open, while the rest simply did not have the release happen yet. Therefore, the gate was not active after the first strum. That didn't really make the rest of the transients louder - just audible in their entirety. It appears and sounds like there was a good bit of an early attack compression going on. Was there something else active when you recorded it, like a mix bus compressor or something up front?

The levels looked right inline with mine in the EQ freq analyser, but just did not bring much tone with it. just sort of sounded loud and thin like maybe the interface is not picking up any depth or something from your guitar? Is there any processing within the interface going on? Any sort of filter being applied?

I didn't pickup on any bad interference harmonics or such, fwiw. Just very hot and compressed but thinned out tone. Maybe a lower volume going in and the boost inside the DAW? Out of curiosity, do you have a friend with any sort of interface or guitar processor like a Boss GT XXX or an Eleven Rack that you could borrow? You can always un-install the driver. Something to test to confirm or dis-confirm that your current interface is suitable or not. I would think something within the past 5 years would be better than 10-15 years old on the consumer gear side of things.

I don't think a DI in-front of whatever is the problem is going to fix the problem, fwiw.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 5 days ago #18021

Hello,
I have no hands on pesonal experience with the UX2.
This is a link to the PDF file user manual I googled.
User Manual for Line 6 POD UX2
Here is a excerpt from the user manual.:

Instrument Input
- To input your electric guitar or bass, plug it into
one of these inputs.
Either of these feeds the instrument’s signal into the POD Farm 2 standalone application where you can choose your tone, and then route the processed signal both to the Record Sends (to your audio software), and your ToneDirect™ monitoring signal directly to the hardware outputs.

Norm
– This input is for a standard instrument level output.

Pad
- This input is designed for high output level basses and guitars, such as those with active
pickups. Plug your high-output instrument into here. End quote

Not knowing the hardware or software, It seems that if the hardware itself does not have input level adjustments then the standalone software described in the manual should have the ability to adjust the input levels.
Do you see any level adjustment options in the standalone software that is designed for the UX2?
One or the other should present a method to adjust the input signal.
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 5 days ago #18023

LouDorn wrote:
Hello,
I have no hands on pesonal experience with the UX2.
This is a link to the PDF file user manual I googled.
User Manual for Line 6 POD UX2
Here is a excerpt from the user manual.:

Instrument Input
- To input your electric guitar or bass, plug it into
one of these inputs.
Either of these feeds the instrument’s signal into the POD Farm 2 standalone application where you can choose your tone, and then route the processed signal both to the Record Sends (to your audio software), and your ToneDirect™ monitoring signal directly to the hardware outputs.

Norm
– This input is for a standard instrument level output.

Pad
- This input is designed for high output level basses and guitars, such as those with active
pickups. Plug your high-output instrument into here. End quote

Not knowing the hardware or software, It seems that if the hardware itself does not have input level adjustments then the standalone software described in the manual should have the ability to adjust the input levels.
Do you see any level adjustment options in the standalone software that is designed for the UX2?
One or the other should present a method to adjust the input signal.


i think THAT was the right idea.... i have a line6 stand-alone software + VST doing the same and i can higher input levels and now i have the sound i was looking for..... at least very close to it.

what a retarded way to do this... with stand-alone software i can only use line6 amps and effects, no scuffham, and then i have to fire up my DAW, put in line6 as VST, after this the sgear-2 VST, higher input levels in line6 with the result of having 2 vsts in a row and its crackling and sound-errors like hell.....

ordered Scarlett 2i4 (with hardware-input-level knows !!!), should come later today
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Not able to get good tube sound 1 month 5 days ago #18025

For the record, that's the kind of software control I was talking about - line 6 software ;)

Usually there is some kind of "control panel" software if there is no hardware control.
Sounds pretty lame to have to fire up the standalone version to do this.

Hopefully the scarlet will solve your problems.

Then you can start worrying about latency ;-)
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