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TOPIC: VST3 Windows

VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18299

I just realized that VST3 is for Mac, will it be for windows as well?
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18303

What's your need for specifically ask for VST3?

Inquiring minds would like to know. B)
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18304

I find it odd that S-gear vst-3 is on available on Mac, but not windows, for one. For two there are multiple benefits to VST 3. As you know, technology grows and becomes better as it moves along. VST 2 is old technology

www.steinberg.net/en/company/technologies/vst3.html
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Last edit: 5 months 2 days ago by Dallon426.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18306

There was news today about VST2 and it looks like they're trying to get rid of it. I don't think it will happen though because VST3 is too buggy and the improvements aren't that great. I wouldn't mind a VST3 version of S-gear, but considering that it will take development time away from things like GUI improvements, new amps, pedals, IRs, etc I'd rather it be postponed as long as possible.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18308

Dallon426 wrote:

there are multiple benefits to VST 3
Which ones are those specifically applied to S-Gear? :??: I'm obviously pretty ignorant, as even going through the Steinberg link, except for the scalable GUI, I just can't device any specific that either would benefit the workflow or something that S-Gear doesn't already does.

Would you care to walk me through it? Greatly appreciated!
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18309

Mike mentioned in another topic that he's looking to add VST3 for Windows in the next release (v2.9).

One difference is that VST3 does not allow S-Gear to manage the midi mappings to parameters internally, so you have to set them up in the DAW. I see this as a negative because you need to set them up twice if you're switching between using S-Gear standalone and as a plugin in your DAW.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18310

kierank wrote:

VST3 does not allow S-Gear to manage the midi mappings to parameters internally, so you have to set them up in the DAW. I see this as a negative because you need to set them up twice if you're switching between using S-Gear standalone and as a plugin in your DAW.
I concur. Not all new things are necessarily "better". In many cases, it's just the opposite, specially when it's software.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 2 days ago #18311

A big one is increased computer performance. Scaleabliilty. And who said you can't midi map? I do it inside Cubase all the time. It's super easy, it's called midi learn. If the developers didn't believe in vst3 then they would continue to develop vst2. However as it turns out vst3 will be the main coding in future applications. Mike explained he's working on it but needed to develop it first for Mac because S-Gear would not function in Cubase / nuendo on the Mac platform without vst3 support. In any case it's nice to know it'll be available at some point. My daw is Cubase and I run a lot of plugins fir livetracking and mixing. Etc. The folks at Steinberg know what they are doing and to announce that vst 2 will no longer be supported is the direction the industry will go. Give it a year or two and most likely everyone here will be using vst3
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VST3 Windows 5 months 1 day ago #18312

Dallon426 wrote:

A big one is increased computer performance. Scaleabliilty. And who said you can't midi map? I do it inside Cubase all the time. It's super easy, it's called midi learn. If the developers didn't believe in vst3 then they would continue to develop vst2. However as it turns out vst3 will be the main coding in future applications. Mike explained he's working on it but needed to develop it first for Mac because S-Gear would not function in Cubase / nuendo on the Mac platform without vst3 support. In any case it's nice to know it'll be available at some point. My daw is Cubase and I run a lot of plugins fir livetracking and mixing. Etc. The folks at Steinberg know what they are doing and to announce that vst 2 will no longer be supported is the direction the industry will go. Give it a year or two and most likely everyone here will be using vst3
MIDI learn is exactly the problem area for VST3. Perhaps you could look into it.

The first SDK for VST3 was released in 2008 - funny how it has not been enthusiastically embraced by the whole industry, ain't it? Nada from NI and lots of others. Why do you think that is? Even Cubase will continue to support VST2.
Last edit: 5 months 1 day ago by Blimey.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 1 day ago #18313

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Last edit: 5 months 1 day ago by spinner.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 7 hours ago #18320

I don't use a MAC (I'm in the majority). I can't use VST3 to do direct program changes (using using TDFKAS, Reaper, Cantabile3 as VST Hosts) with midi. Out since 2008 and still won't do direct program changes? Isn't that midi 101? Now, maybe there's workarounds, but for those of us who've built complex performing and recording setups around being able to do what is simple with VST2, that's a real drag.

I've actually found a way to make VST3 work for me though. If you're using another plugin ahead of S-Gear, for instance, TH3 or Amplitube, for effects you want before the amp, and you don't want preset changes sent to S-Gear to affect the other plugin, use the still defective VST3 version for that plugin. You can still control other parameters in both plugins (ON/OFF, levels, etc.), but preset changes will only happen in the VST2 plugin. I kinda hope they don't fix it! But being bullied into using VST3 by dropping VST2 when VST3 still isn't ready for prime time feels a lot like the sort of crap that makes Microsoft so disliked.
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VST3 Windows 5 months 3 hours ago #18321

rd2rk wrote:

being bullied into using VST3 by dropping VST2 when VST3 still isn't ready for prime time feels a lot like the sort of crap that makes Microsoft so disliked.
For the record, the technology behind VST belongs to Steinberg.

Microsoft has absolutely nothing to do with it in any way, nor how its MIDI implementation is used.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI
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VST3 Windows 4 months 4 weeks ago #18322

Again, I've never had any problems with vst3 and midi learn. Or any other issues.
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18338

LtKojak wrote:

rd2rk wrote:

being bullied into using VST3 by dropping VST2 when VST3 still isn't ready for prime time feels a lot like the sort of crap that makes Microsoft so disliked.
For the record, the technology behind VST belongs to Steinberg.

Microsoft has absolutely nothing to do with it in any way, nor how its MIDI implementation is used.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI

Of course I know all that! It's the attitude I'm talking about. "You need us more than we need you. WE OWN the technology that you depend on, and you'll just have to deal with whatever WE decide to do. Peasants!!"

That's what I'm referring to when I mentioned MICROSOFT in the same sentence as BULLIES.

I'm not a Microsoft hater. In another life, I made a lot of money writing software with Microsoft tools. I just wish they weren't such buttheads!
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18340

Dallon426 wrote:

Again, I've never had any problems with vst3 and midi learn. Or any other issues.

Have you ever tried to do a PROGRAM CHANGE with a VST3 plugin, I mean, point a MIDI signal at a VST3 plugin and send a program change? It's one reason why I use TH3 VST3 in front of S-Gear, because the PROGRAM CHANGE function doesn't work. TH3 VST2 works fin for that. All other MIDI stuff going to TH3 VST3 works fine too, just PROGRAM CHANGE doesn't work.
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18341

rd2rk wrote:

Dallon426 wrote:

Again, I've never had any problems with vst3 and midi learn. Or any other issues.

Have you ever tried to do a PROGRAM CHANGE with a VST3 plugin, I mean, point a MIDI signal at a VST3 plugin and send a program change? It's one reason why I use TH3 VST3 in front of S-Gear, because the PROGRAM CHANGE function doesn't work. TH3 VST2 works fin for that. All other MIDI stuff going to TH3 VST3 works fine too, just PROGRAM CHANGE doesn't work.

VST3 doesn't support MIDI Control or Program Change messages, it's not in the specification. Most DAWs (with a few exceptions) do not pass MIDI Control or Program change messages to plug-ins. Rather they receive MIDI then relay an automation message to the plug-in.
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18342

VST3 doesn't support MIDI Control or Program Change messages, it's not in the specification. Most DAWs (with a few exceptions) do not pass MIDI Control or Program change messages to plug-ins. Rather they receive MIDI then relay an automation message to the plug-in.[/quote]

Not sure what you mean. I use Reaper and Cakewalk (formerly Sonar). To send a program change to a VST2 plugin, I create a midi track taking it's signal from either my FCB1010 or Helix, route the signal to the audio track containing the plugin, done! It's how I use S-Gear, Amplitube, Guitar Rig, BIAS FX and TH3. Been doing it for years. Am I misunderstanding your terminology? And if VST3 doesn't even have Program Changes built into the spec, then Steinberg dumping VST2 is even more of a drag than I thought. I was under the impression that they just hadn't gotten around to implementing it yet.
Last edit: 4 months 3 weeks ago by rd2rk. Reason: confused myself
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18343

rd2rk wrote:

I mentioned MICROSOFT in the same sentence as BULLIES.
You obviously haven't been following Apple the last ten years... they make look MS like choir boys! ;)
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18344

Not sure what this is implying here?
But I will say that I personally think Apple is overpriced and overrated and not just their computers but all their products. The business model that they have is one I refuse to prescribe to. ESPECIALLY after the stunt they just pulled on everyone with iphones via a "software update" Apple is in decay and I imagine will continue to do so. I can build a PC at LEAST twice as powerful for half the price (yes even with thunderbolt 3). I can buy a phone that can smoke any Iphone in terms of performance, storage, and durability/construction. That being said, I honestly don't care about people claiming Apple is better than PC or MS for creating music. I personally have recorded and produced on both Mac and PC and I see no difference in terms of performance..... except Apple is far more pretentious in their pricing.

All this being said I emailed steinberg to find out more information on any drawbacks with vst3 and if they are working on what people are claiming are the issues with VST3. I imagine Steinberg has realized VST3 is superior and they will continue to develop it to reach its potential... until vst4 comes out that is, HA.
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VST3 Windows 4 months 3 weeks ago #18345

rd2rk wrote:

Not sure what you mean. I use Reaper and Cakewalk (formerly Sonar). To send a program change to a VST2 plugin, I create a midi track taking it's signal from either my FCB1010 or Helix, route the signal to the audio track containing the plugin, done! It's how I use S-Gear, Amplitube, Guitar Rig, BIAS FX and TH3. Been doing it for years. Am I misunderstanding your terminology? And if VST3 doesn't even have Program Changes built into the spec, then Steinberg dumping VST2 is even more of a drag than I thought. I was under the impression that they just hadn't gotten around to implementing it yet.

VST2.4 supports Midi and can receive any Midi Messages. VST3 doesn't but arguably doesn't need to in most circumstances - it is designed to work inside the DAW where the plug-in is an extension of the DAW capabilities and automation is the preferred method of controlling the plug-in. This is the design philosophy adopted by Steinberg - Apple's Logic takes the same approach.

I wouldn't be too worried about Steinberg ceasing support for VST2. It won't prevent VST2 plug-ins from being supported in various hosts in future. VST3 already works very well inside the Steinberg DAWs (Cubase and Nuendo). I'm thankful that Steinberg created the VST2 spec in the first place and that they are still forging ahead with their development goals.
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